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Beta comments
Hey, I just took some time to respond to threads on FFXIV's dev site and express some of my concerns. I thought I'd share some of those concerns here!
As I understand the fatigue/surplus system, it penalizes people who play too often in order to allow people who don't play that much to stay on track with them. This doesn't really make sense though, because you end up penalizing your most active players. Rather, the inactive or weekend players should be rewarded by not playing, gaining the opportunity to earn EXP at an accelerated rate based on how long they've been offline.
Mechanically, these limitations may work, but conceptually they will never be perceived as anything but ridiculous.
As an Archer, it seems odd on some level that when an enemy gets close to me, I can't start using melee weapons while soloing. Switching quickly from ranged to melee is something I was quite fond of in FFXI. The same works in reverse, as a samurai who wants to shoot an enemy from afar to draw it in, I'd like to be able to use ranged weapons while still having my main hand hold a sword of some kind.
I applaud every effort SE makes to force people in the game to cooperate, but making guildleves this restricted is not the best way to do so. Rather than penalize people doing guildleves alone, reward those who do them together. Take away the limitations on how often you can accept a leve, but then add an exp or monetary bonus to any that are done with a party. Then, maybe go further and add rewards for successfully engaged battle regiments and quick completion, so the party is encouraged to work together effectively.
I like the whole mini-game aspect of gathering, it's nice. However, it takes way too long, coupled with all the walking and selling required to actually make money. Each part of the crafting/gathering process should be streamlined so that it's either as efficient as possible, or it becomes a meaningful part of the gameplay. Make the mini-game easier, make the rewards more tangible or common, or simply change the process so that it's less a mini-game and more a fun thing to do.
Market wards need a search function that allows you to search every store in the area for an item you're looking for. From that interface, you should either be able to buy the item directly, or target the PC or retainer selling said item so that you can use their bazaar interface.
It's been really difficult for me to get into crafting by virtue of the fact I don't know what to combine. Recipes should be built into the system, where you can memorize them and repeat them at a moments notice, without having to select each ingredient from your inventory. Gaining new recipes could be as simple as discovering them through experimentation, or perhaps you'd have to buy them as items.
I also said this in reply to a comment on the surplus system:
It's really a matter of perception. If they were to make the reduced EXP seem like the standard EXP gain, then position the surplus system as an EXP bonus... then people wouldn't care...
that would be much better
meh i know this is very selfish of me to say, but maybe it's a sign for me to not play anymore mmo's
i get a little too obsessed
As I understand the fatigue/surplus system, it penalizes people who play too often in order to allow people who don't play that much to stay on track with them. This doesn't really make sense though, because you end up penalizing your most active players. Rather, the inactive or weekend players should be rewarded by not playing, gaining the opportunity to earn EXP at an accelerated rate based on how long they've been offline.
Mechanically, these limitations may work, but conceptually they will never be perceived as anything but ridiculous.
Agreed. When I first heard of this system I wanted to cancel my pre-order. However, there's a post on Eorzeapedia that likens this to the EXP system in XI. I'll try to give a tl;dr version of this post... I put quotes around this because the ideas conveyed are not mine; this is not an exact quote.
"Basically, all things in XI go by whole levels, not individual experience points. The incredibly steep curve that kicks in during midlevels is basically the equivalent of the fatigue system, just implemented in a different way."
I suppose it just depends how it plays out. SE has stated they will take feedback and review how the system is functioning, making changes based on player performance. As long as they faithfully do this, I don't believe I will have too much of a problem with it, but I will definitely think of it as a ridiculous way of implementation.
As an Archer, it seems odd on some level that when an enemy gets close to me, I can't start using melee weapons while soloing. Switching quickly from ranged to melee is something I was quite fond of in FFXI. The same works in reverse, as a samurai who wants to shoot an enemy from afar to draw it in, I'd like to be able to use ranged weapons while still having my main hand hold a sword of some kind.
This is the first I've heard of this. I haven't followed the battle system as closely as I have other things. I'm actually in the middle on this idea. In XI, I met too many people who would melee with their weapons and only use their Bows/Guns/Crossbows for Weapon Skills. At lower levels this might not be such a bother, but when you get to higher ones the DPS output is superior if you're using the weapon you have the highest combat skill in. This is especially true once you progress to Colibri, which have a natural weakness to piercing damage types.
However, there is that lack of versatility. The equivalent of SAM/RNG wouldn't work as well, depending on if TP is reset (or a similar penalty) when changing weapons. At best, it adds a couple of steps to the process; at worst, it could ruin the ability to utilize certain job combinations. In addition, it would be an inefficient use of ammo to use an arrow to finish off the last 1-3% of a monster's life bar... I guess I can sum this up best as "situational weapons are situational." >.<
From a realism standpoint, I can see why they made extra steps. I sure couldn't hold a broadsword while deftly handling a bow. It was something that I didn't question in XI simply because you had to be engaged, and being engaged meant you had a main weapon.
I applaud every effort SE makes to force people in the game to cooperate, but making guildleves this restricted is not the best way to do so. Rather than penalize people doing guildleves alone, reward those who do them together. Take away the limitations on how often you can accept a leve, but then add an exp or monetary bonus to any that are done with a party. Then, maybe go further and add rewards for successfully engaged battle regiments and quick completion, so the party is encouraged to work together effectively.
I simultaneously agree and disagree.
Its an MMORPG - by its very nature, it is meant to be a game where you interact with others and participate in groups. It must include some incentive to do so.
I, however, prefer to do a lot of things by myself. Incentives to group allow me to join groups because I want to - not because I will be penalized if I don't.
As I currently understand the system, if the time restriction on leves was removed, it would unbalance the game. I have read that they reward a lot of gil; therefore, among other things, it would make easy farming for gilsellers - which would possibly (and quite quickly) cause inflation. This could happen regardless though, depending on how hard people spammed leves.
I believe that one of the boons of releasing the PC version early is to have time to test the game in a much bigger way. Beta tester feedback is one thing; let subscriber count speak for itself. If people are happy with the system, then they will remain subscribed; if they are not happy, and these reasons are made public, I imagine that SE will make changes - if not to the system, then at least to the mechanics - else this beautiful game will have a much lamented death.
I like the whole mini-game aspect of gathering, it's nice. However, it takes way too long, coupled with all the walking and selling required to actually make money. Each part of the crafting/gathering process should be streamlined so that it's either as efficient as possible, or it becomes a meaningful part of the gameplay. Make the mini-game easier, make the rewards more tangible or common, or simply change the process so that it's less a mini-game and more a fun thing to do.
I cannot comment on this as I haven't followed it.
Market wards need a search function that allows you to search every store in the area for an item you're looking for. From that interface, you should either be able to buy the item directly, or target the PC or retainer selling said item so that you can use their bazaar interface.
I couldn't believe that there wasn't going to be a functioning Auction House in this game. I suppose it isn't the final verdict, but I didn't see any mention of any AH in the works.
The only rationale I could come up with was some information that I don't have a source for. I believe that I heard somewhere that the Auction House was one of the greatest taxes on the server load, which is why they could not increase the seven item limit. Given the state of the beta servers, I could see why they wouldn't implement an AH until they are much more stable.
I agree with a more streamlined ward system. This would take a lot of time out of the search. I would have loved to enter Rolanberry Fields and have been able to search all local bazaars for a desired item within a single window. I would not protest to no Auction House if this was the case.
In fact, I can see a major advantage in the bazaar-like system. This way, people can choose who to buy from. There is no personal contact on the Auction House; you don't know who you're buying from until you already have. In this way, you can choose from whom to buy. I hope that manipulating the crafting market in this game is going to prove, at the very least, more difficult than XI's patented spam-undercut-repeat strategy. I'm interested to see how this plays out - will players always go for the cheapest price?
It's been really difficult for me to get into crafting by virtue of the fact I don't know what to combine. Recipes should be built into the system, where you can memorize them and repeat them at a moments notice, without having to select each ingredient from your inventory. Gaining new recipes could be as simple as discovering them through experimentation, or perhaps you'd have to buy them as items.
When I crafted, the Wiki was my resource. I didn't figure anything out by myself. I suppose if I was feeling adventurous, I could have tried, but why would I run around to all these different NPCs and buy things and try different amounts of this ingredient or that ingredient with one of eight crystals? My mindset was very objective-oriented; gaining crafting levels was a means to an end. This was XI though. In this game, I could definitely use a more laid back approach. I would be excited to discover at least a couple of things by myself.
I have often wondered about the original pioneers in XI when it came out in Japan. I don't suppose there was any information out regarding how exactly to accomplish the nation missions, or how to craft such and such item. I'm quite shocked that they managed to find all this information somehow. Given enough time, I suppose that anything is possible. When we're talking about an MMO, though? - which needs subscribers in order to pay the server bills and administration bills, etc. - its amazing it survived long enough in the original format, at least in my opinion. I found very few things that were explicitly clear to me.
The challenges we faced when we joined were very much different from this era of discovery. When expansions came out, I suppose we had our own versions of this, but we had our previous experience to go off of; the original people had none.
Back on topic! I had often wished for crafting macros - map all the ingredients to a macro, press, and presto! I was a mage at heart; I lived for macro spam.
tl;dr - A lot of this stuff is under the "I will have to see how it plays out" area for me. I see many valid points in your arguments.
The crafting system right now is too similar to FFXI's. If crafting is to be elevated to a primary job sort of thing, it needs to be a streamlined process that doesn't make you look all over the Internet for resources. Something can be said for discovery, but really, it's just bad game design.
I'm also realizing a lack of pricing history could be hugely detrimental to the economy of a game like this. How are new players to know what an item is worth? Then, among experienced players, prices would become this fixed, probably low rate that never changes since everyone knows something or another has sold at that price in the past.
And, if the AH was such a huge tax on the servers, maybe they should program their AH better. They could easily modularize the interface within the game entirely and handle it on external servers, which would also allow outside game access via browser or cell phone app. This isn't 10 years ago, these things are easy to do.
I definitely agree. I had a few friends who played XI through their Xbox and did not have an actual computer; for a lot of things they were at a disadvantage because they could not do their own research of crafting or jobs.
It is true that there could be a stagnant economy, but I don't believe it will be too big of a problem. I'd always scour through Rolanberry before I set something up in my bazaar in order to get a picture of an item's price range. If it wasn't purchased within a week or two I'd adjust it further. I could see something similar happening with the market wards (or maybe I'm just being idealistic).
You make a great point about the "true price" issue. I'm wondering if there would be any way the game could track recent sales in the area... if there was a system that allows searching for a specific item within the ward, then how about also showing, if applicable, if the person has sold the item before and how much it was sold for? I guess this is sort of like a bazaar/auction house hybrid suggestion?
I don't know, you would think they would program things better this time around; however, we thought they were going to get it right this time and make it a simultaneous release, but that ended up not happening (this is just my opinion, as I really wanted to see a simul-release). That, combined with all the negative comments about how the game plays, has me worried. This game may be 10 years later and post-XI, but I would think they would have a lot more to show for it other than graphics... that's not a bad start, but that's not usually what keeps players coming back for more.
I agree with all of this.